Cooking Skills, Herbs and Enhancing Food

[Grinnen Baeritt]

I've started this thread to discuss the various rules that would apply to the creation of enhanced food items...whether when combined with existing herbs, by magic or due entirely to the quality of the cooking.

I'll start with RM skills that are used in food production:

Craft: Cooking.

The RM rules bunch a considerable number of skills in the Craft Group, of which Cooking is one... the Cooking skill is a generic skill, one that itself encompasses a variety of specialisations. The skills included within the discription is far too wide and needs some narrowing down but not too much to make each of the specialisations a seperate skill.

My suggestion here would be to split the main cooking skill into two simple broad catagories:

Cooking (Food): Production of food items (e.g. Confectionary, Baking, Curing Etc.)
Cooking (Drink): Production of drinks (eg. Brewing, Distilling etc).  

When the first rank of each is purchased the character choses a speciality within the group of specialities available, that skill recieves the full bonus usually attributed to the skill rank purchased, all others recieve a bonus as if they had half the number of ranks in the skill. The character should also be able to specify more specialities as they advance, the equivilent amount of DP to purchase one rank is expended (the overall rank and bonuses do not increase) but the character may choose a speciality which is then added to any existing ones.

Herb Lore, Use Prepared Herb, Prepare Herb

All three of these skills are related but all three are in different categories. For the purposes of cooking and attempting to incorporate the benifical effects of a herb into a food/drink item the cook must either have access to each of the skills himself or have help from someone who does...

Alchemy and Magic Ritual

These skill might concievably be used to either use a compund, chemical, magical or spell effect into the recipie. In such cases, the recipie might require the use of the various spells from the Alchemists Spell Lists...

[Sorloc]

Don't forget Glamour spells : Taste, smell and sight illusions are better than the real thing - it could make tofu taste like fillet mignon

[Grinnen Baeritt]

I hadn't...Except I've always ruled that the caster of an illusion must have experienced the real thing for it to be believeable...

As for making it better than the real thing..humm. No.

As far as Illusions go...they wouldn't provide any actual bonuses if incorporated into food, they might fool you into "thinking" you've tasted garlic in it, but wouldn't provide any physical benifits...other than making you think that you've eaten a gourmet meal when in fact you've just eaten a slightly warmed-up cow pat.

I suppose that the best that could be hoped for it that you could avoid the psychological effects of very bad food.

[LadyCatreece]

I've started this thread to discuss the various rules that would apply to the creation of enhanced food items...whether when combined with existing herbs, by magic or due entirely to the quality of the cooking.

I'll start with RM skills that are used in food production:

Craft: Cooking.

The RM rules bunch a considerable number of skills in the Craft Group, of which Cooking is one... the Cooking skill is a generic skill, one that itself encompasses a variety of specialisations. The skills included within the discription is far too wide and needs some narrowing down but not too much to make each of the specialisations a seperate skill.

My suggestion here would be to split the main cooking skill into two simple broad catagories:

Cooking (Food): Production of food items (e.g. Confectionary, Baking, Curing Etc.)
Cooking (Drink): Production of drinks (eg. Brewing, Distilling etc). 

.

This might sound very strange, but would having skill in, say, cooking, help with other skills that one might have?

(and I might be looking too much into it, and if I am, them please forgive me!!)

When I think of cooking, I think of the math that is involved, and the science. There is a lot of science in cooking without one really realizing it. For example, when you make bread, it rises. Why? Because of th yeast. What does it do exactly? What is the proper temperature for it to rise? Why? These things kinda deal with science.

So, would buying a rank of cooking in some way help your science or math skill?

Again, if I am looking too much into it, then let me know. Perhaps I am thinking more of Cooking as being a Profession....

A Chef that wields a huge spatula....

and WHACKS people with it with deadly force....

That was learned using the okonomiyaki-style martial arts....
Just like Ukyo Kuonji from Ranma 1/2!

[Grinnen Baeritt]

I suppose so...but you could also know that doing something will cause something to happen without actually knowing why..

(I.e. turning a power switch on...)

Yes. if you are doing a task for which you have a related skill then yes you would recieve a bonus if you make a successful check with that related skill.

E.g. Making an appropriate herb lore roll first might provide bonuses etc.

[LadyCatreece]

I see what you are saying, GB. It all seems prefectly clear now. Thanks!

[arakish]

Craft: Cooking.

The RM rules bunch a considerable number of skills in the Craft Group, of which Cooking is one... the Cooking skill is a generic skill, one that itself encompasses a variety of specialisations. The skills included within the discription is far too wide and needs some narrowing down but not too much to make each of the specialisations a seperate skill.

My suggestion here would be to split the main cooking skill into two simple broad catagories:

Cooking (Food): Production of food items (e.g. Confectionary, Baking, Curing Etc.)
Cooking (Drink): Production of drinks (eg. Brewing, Distilling etc). 

When the first rank of each is purchased the character choses a speciality within the group of specialities available, that skill recieves the full bonus usually attributed to the skill rank purchased, all others recieve half this bonus. The character should also be able to specify more specialities as they advance, the equivilent amount of DP to purchase one rank is expended (the overall rank does not increase) but the character may choose aspeciality is added to any existing ones.

Good idea.  However, if one wanted to really get technical like my wife and I with Udava, Cooking can actually be renamed to several subskills under the skills of Cooking and Cheffing.  Cooking is cooking foods as a fast order cook such as McDonald's.  The food is good, but not Umm, Umm Good! as a Chef would do in a New York City 5 Star restaurant costing $40 a plate.

General Cooking - this skill gives a bonus to all styles of cooking but only as if it were a restricted skill.  Reasoning behind this is that anyone can cook, but never with the skill as someone who specializes in a specific style of cooking.  Most adventurers learn this skill, but never truly specialize (excepting perhaps Rangers).  Rangers, Animists, Druids learn this skill as if it were everyman.
Cooking (Roasting, Meats) - this skill gives a bonus to roasting meats.  It also gives a bonus for knowing proper herbs to rub into the meat to give it some extra flavor.  All others would follow the same guideline as this skill.
Cooking (Roasting, Vegetables).
Cooking (Baking, Meats).
Cooking (Baking, Vegetables).
Cooking (Baking, Breads).
Cooking (Stewing, Meats).  Can also be called Boiling or Brewing.
Cooking (Stewing, Vegetables).

I think you can see where I am going with all this.  Cheffing would follow the same guidelines as above except the cooking is specialized and would be anywhere from times 2 to times 10 in cost in such a restaurant (only in very large cities).  Probably in the gp cost range instead of cp cost range.  May even have a 1gp cover cost just to enter the restaurant.

arakish

[ictus]

gosh I'd forgot about this project, it was one of our better ideas.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

I think the rules more or less already cover the result of the food production... someone with a high skill produces a good result.

Therefore, anybody can attempt cooking, but only those really well-trained get very good at it...like chefs.

I'd also disagree that the quality of food produced by Chefs is markedly any better than that produced by someone at home(or in the field). The differences between the two lie in the presentation and the ingredients...and that is why there is a marked difference in cost.

Supermarkets in the UK basically have three ranges of food, Low Cost, Normal and Premium. Esentially the products are the same, with the Low  Cost being poorer quality and no frills, with the Premium being slightly better quality than normal. The difference however between Normal and Premium is marginal at best with the majority of the difference being packaging/and or branding.

The same analogy can be used for the skill system.

Anybody can cook, even with no skill. -30 (i.e. no ranks).
Trained, even 1 rank basic, brings the skill result to +5.

A chef, therefore, simply has a better skill bonus, multiple specialisations and access to better ingredients (and also access to staff to help prepare it).

Where I would have the distinction (and therefore specialisation) is where recipies and techniques used are markedly different.

Take the examples of a fried egg, pancake or omlette and crepes suzette....the three are quite similar in cooking techiques/ingredients. I would grade the various recipies by difficulty of preperation.

Fried egg. = Routine.
Pancake = Easy.
Omlette = Normal.
Crepes Suzzette = Hard.

Basically, the specialisation element of what I was suggesting did make the skill a restricted skill for all other non-specialised aspects  . The "jump" in skill bonus when a trained cook acquires a specialisation, reflects the learning of specific techniques used by that specialisation.

[arakish]

Actually, looking back at the Crafts table my wife and I created, below is how we divided up Crafts · Cooking.

Baking (Breads)
Baking (Vegetables)
Baking (Meats)
Brewing
Curing
Distilling
Roasting (Breads)
Roasting (Vegetables)
Roasting (Meats)
Milling
Winery

Roasting would also include Grilling since both are done on an open fire.  Baking differs from Roasting in baking uses only the heat of the fire and not the fire itself.  I'm sure other skills could be added, but we used only the above to base most cooking skills.

rmfr

[Avidos]

I don't see deep-fry on that list... isn't that the same as "boiled in oil"

also need Ketchup making 

[arakish]

I don't see deep-fry on that list... isn't that the same as "boiled in oil"

also need Ketchup making 

You are right, but remember what I said

I'm sure other skills could be added, but we used only the above to base most cooking skills.

rmfr

We never added Deep Fried due to a genetic quirk my mom's side of the family has having to do with the "bad cholesterol."  Eating fried foods causes a really bad problem.    Thus I never added it.  If we had, it would have been separated into Breads, Vegetables, and Meats also.  One could also add Skillet Frying since that is significantly different than Deep Frying (Boiling in Oil).

Another reason we never included Frying is that it is very difficult for adventurers to carry oil (or fat) to Deep Fry.  Thus, we only included Baking and Roasting which are the two skills mostly learned by adventurers.  However, one could always use the fat from a hunted animal to fry with. 

rmfr

[Avidos]

Yes, I am quite aware of "bad cholesterol" but when you are about to be cleaved by an axe, ripped apart by a hoarde of trolls or make a comment about how good d20 can be ( )then you really don't mind you cholesterol score.  

Also, this development need not be limited to one genre (i.e. fantasy of the medieval era)  this could be used in sci-fi and horror among other game settings. 

But I think you and GB have really hammered it down...just need to apply it to RM/SP/HARP/Etc in a useable format

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Mmmm. Fried food. 

Actually, whilst DEEP fat frying probably wouldn't be an immediate option, as several survival experts will tell you, FAT is not only a good source of food but essential for survival. A large animals body can be rendered to produce large amounts of animal fat (lard), which when cooled is a good source of energy and fuel. In relatively moderate tempertures is solid and lasts longer than other food sources...true, as a healthy and appitising meal it is lacking... , but isn't an impossibilty.

The ability to render should be fairly easy part of the cooking skill, akin to butchering.. in fact, when cooking something that has a high fat (like porcine or bovine animals) or blubber (like cetateans) this will prove to be a simple by-product. It just needs to be collected.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Cholesterol. A much maligned substance, truth is it is the bodies inability to deal with large amounts that causes the problem...it is then that the clogging effect occurs and that is the killer.  Some world class athletes have exceedingly high levels of Cholesterol which does not hamper their health.

Various people have various tolerances for the subtance, and differing rates of metabolising the "bad cholestrol" (i.e. any that exceed the bodies ability of use/rid itself of it). Exercise increases the ability of the body to rid itself of the excess..

[arakish]

Cholesterol. A much maligned substance, truth is it is the bodies inability to deal with large amounts that causes the problem...it is then that the clogging effect occurs and that is the killer.  Some world class athletes have exceedingly high levels of Cholesterol which does not hamper their health.

Various people have various tolerances for the subtance, and differing rates of metabolising the "bad cholestrol" (i.e. any that exceed the bodies ability of use/rid itself of it). Exercise increases the ability of the body to rid itself of the excess..

Totally true.  That is why both my mom and I have to take medication to deal with the cholesterol.  Also have to watch how much fried foods we eat.

Mmmm. Fried food. 

Actually, whilst DEEP fat frying probably wouldn't be an immediate option, as several survival experts will tell you, FAT is not only a good source of food but essential for survival. A large animals body can be rendered to produce large amounts of animal fat (lard), which when cooled is a good source of energy and fuel. In relatively moderate tempertures is solid and lasts longer than other food sources...true, as a healthy and appitising meal it is lacking... , but isn't an impossibilty.

The ability to render should be fairly easy part of the cooking skill, akin to butchering.. in fact, when cooking something that has a high fat (like porcine or bovine animals) or blubber (like cetateans) this will prove to be a simple by-product. It just needs to be collected.

True again.  Although lacking, lard can be added to stews to provide a higher calorie meal which is perfect when in an arctic environment.  Also, if you had nothing else, hunks of blubber are actually better when in an arctic environment, providing large amounts of calories for the body to burn for warmth and energy.

Hmm...  Perhaps this should have been posted under Survival.

rmfr

[Avidos]

Just lingering over some marketing slogans... let's see...

Lard, its whats for dinner

Lard, the other white meat

Lard, its all fat

Lard, legal render

Well there is nothing like a good discussion of viscous adipose tissue to get the appetite stirring.. . mmm...mmm good.

[arakish]

Just lingering over some marketing slogans... let's see...

Lard, its whats for dinner

Lard, the other white meat

Lard, its all fat

Lard, legal render

Well there is nothing like a good discussion of viscous adipose tissue to get the appetite stirring.. . mmm...mmm good.

 

That's good.  Finger lickin' good.

rmfr